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Mariah's voice (40,164) by Stephen from London, United Kingdom If it looks like an orange, peels like an orange and even tastes like an orange, then call it a bloody orange. Mariah's voice has its good moments, but the bad moments are certainly outweighing the good. Some fans need to recognise that Mariah's voice is shot. There's no need for excuses. Bad is bad. Simple. Do I think it's the end for Mariah? No. She's a great songwriter and producer. If she lays off the alcohol, then who knows what may happen. At the moment though, taking care of her voice is clearly not a priority. Anyone for a "splash"?! (Tuesday 10 December 2013; 11:18)

Excuses, excuses (40,163) by Bill from the UK I think everybody is dancing around the obvious here. No "lamb" wants to admit it, but there is a very heavy suggestion that Mariah has a drinking problem. Her public appearances are very odd and the most telling sign is of course the state of her voice. There is absolutely no reason why she cannot sing well, because every so often she does a great performance. It is entirely self inflicted and if she was more responsible and stopped the daily "splashes" she'd be fine. Every singer in the world, except Mariah it would seem, knows alcohol is one of the worst things for your singing voice. If she wants to carry on then so be it, she can do what she wants, but please stop these lame half-baked excuses. Plenty of mediocre singers perform perfectly well in cold weather people! Singing for three minutes should be a walk in the park for a singer of Mariah's calibre. (Tuesday 10 December 2013; 8:58)

Re: Licia (40,162) by jaker20 from US I did not say MC should never sing her old songs. I'm saying she needs to build a new discography that is more fitting to her current voice. And no one said it is going to be easy. We are all working and at some point in time we need to adjust to our new self. At some point in our lives we can't continue to work 12 hours a day, run like the wind and eat anything we want. Same with MC. She needs to adjust to her new self, otherwise, that's it. It's over. If she and her fans don't recognize this, she will not grow old gracefully because she'll be stuck in reminiscing her past glories. Like I said, it won't be easy. It might mean losing your old fans, maybe losing you and me. But for her as an artist, it is good. We all get old, but growing and learning never ends. (Tuesday 10 December 2013; 8:35)

Marc Charles' analysis (40,161) by Jamie from UK I don't think Mark Charles' post was unnecessarily lengthy. If this was a forum, his analysis/theory should be in a sticky at the top for everyone wondering what happened to Mariah's voice. That topic is brought up again and again and again. I also think an upvote/downvote system would be cool for this message board. Anyone agree? (Tuesday 10 December 2013; 8:06)

Nobody comes close to MC (40,160) by Will from Australia So remember when Leona Lewis came on the scene and she was being heralded as the new new Mariah, before Grande. Well she just realised a Christmas album that I for one knew nothing about and it just happens to have three songs from Merry Christmas: O Holy Night, Christmas Baby Please Come Home and Silent Night. Silent Night is the only one that I can honestly say sounds good but the other two are so poor compared to Mimi's versions. Simon Cowell is still trying to mimic Mariah (remember he made Walter Afanesief an executive producer on Leona's debut album and wrote songs not too dismisliar to Music Box). I like Leona (her Ave Maria - is that even her wow) but it does make you admire more just how brilliant Mariah's versions are, aside from what everyone knows in AIWFCIY, the other efforts are untouchable from any female artist in my opinion. (Tuesday 10 December 2013; 8:05)

Lee, Lamby from Hong Kong, Joyce (40,158) by Lamb_O_Chop from Australia Lee from the UK: Sugar sugar boo boo, my point still stands, many things the lambily mentioned in reference to Mimi's tree lighting performance weren't "unfounded excuses", but if you say no shade was intended then I digress. Lamby: Sweet potato, we don't know the details of what Mariah had to endure with Tommy. Even MJ said he was a , so it's not our place to tell her to "get over it already" or call her mean when we don't know all the facts. Letting go ain't easy baby. Also be careful with what you give Tommy credit for, because the Mariah we fell in love with wasn't Tommy's puppet, but was the result of Mariah fighting to add favor to her sound. It wasn't all Tommy, it was his guidance and Mariah creative instincts that created the artist we fell in love with. I believe if it was up to Tommy, we probably wouldn't have Daydream, or several of MC's biggest hits as well; instead we'd have several Music Boxes and she would still be stuck in the Whitney Celine clone status not how I wanna see my Mariah. So please stop giving him all that. As a matter of fact, I blame him for MC not having a balance now. Joyce: Mariah is not old, so you're right it's not age that affected her voice, evidently it's medical issues with her vocals chords due to many things already mentioned. Therefore you can't compare her vocal state to Celine, Barbra, Patty or whoever else's, because they don't have the same vocal chords or have the same vocal issues MC has. After finally seeing the performance, I think she just had an off day which could've been due to several factors, so I totally disagree with the individuals who believe that this is the best of MC's current vocal condition. If you believe that it is then you should refer to the camera phone video of her singing on Fallon, it gets no more undubbed than that. (Tuesday 10 December 2013; 2:16)

How many years? / lame excuses (40,157) by Edward from USA How many years does Mariah need to rest her voice to be able to deliver a great performance? Mariah is a human being, I know that, but she is a singer by profession. Why do we have to hold on to our seats everytime she is going to sing live? Some even say that now she is a mother, well there are many mothers out there who have it worse than her. Instead of making lame excuses for her bad performances, I rather remain silent. Mariah has vocal chords issues, and she should find a way to deal with it. I hope she finds some sort of viable solution to enhance the state of her voice, since the new album is supposed to be full of old Mariah type of moments. She'll need to deliver should she want this new era to be good. We, fans alone, won't make a difference. She needs new fans, and to regain some of the lost ones should she want to have a record deal after this album. Sales like Memoirs won't cut it, since she isn't having multiple platinum singles like Rihanna, Katy Perry or Miley Cyrus. (Tuesday 10 December 2013; 2:10)

Re: Lee from the UK (40,156) by Tory from Australia I agree with you 100%. No more excuses, this is not "hating" or "nitpicking". If you can't handle your loyal fans critique, how are you going to feel when the media is up your bum about it? Lol. I've had enough of the dubbing and blatant lipping, I just want Mariah to give us her all and give us the real deal. Whitney Houston didn't sound like she used to but she still got up and sang live infront of countless award and talent shows and no-one made a fuss about it. I still loved her comeback performances because even though the voice wasn't 100%, her energy and stage presence was above and beyond. Her performances were genuine and at the end of the day, that was most important. Mind you, she always had that "spark" and presence from the very beginning. (Tuesday 10 December 2013; 1:43)

Who cares? It's not that deep (40,155) by clueey23 from USA So MC rushed on stage and was clearly out of breath, sounded great and then she didn't hit the falsetto notes. Hello, it's her falsetto. Look up falsetto and then maybe you would have a better understanding as to why she wasn't able to hit those particular notes that particular moment. Not to mention nodules on her vocal folds. I think MC sounds great regardless. And I wouldn't be surprised if she went backstage, took a sip of water and took a breath and hit the same notes that she didn't hit on stage. Maybe if I didn't sing and understand music, I would probably sound as critical and ignorant as some of you on this fan message board. I can't wait for the next performance, single and album. (Tuesday 10 December 2013; 1:02)

Lamb_O_Chop (40,154) by Lee from UK Honey, darling, I almost missed your attempt at condescension due to the unnecessarily lengthy post by Marc Charles. I think it may benefit you to re-read my previous post as, from what I can infer, you seem to have taken my words for an attack on Mariah. In actual fact they were more of a plea to those making unfounded excuses and calling them reason. (Monday 9 December 2013; 23:56)

Billy from Greece (40,153) by Licia from USA I have no idea where I got this pic from, but if you want to leave your email, I will send it to you. (Monday 9 December 2013; 23:20)

Mariah's voice (40,151) by Manny from U.S. With critical fans like the ones in this messageboard, Mariah does not need enemies. First of all, I'm not making excuse for her. There have been many singers that have problems with their voices (i.e. Julie Andrews, Whitney Houston, Steven Tyler, Shania Twain). Some people say she does not take care of her voice because she drinks. You guys make her out to be an alcoholic. Other people say she doesn't warm up or is more concerned about her looks. It can be other reasons we don't know about. There might me emotional reasons that might have to do with her voice's condition. When Shania Twain was on Oprah, she mentioned she was hiking through a hard part of her life and she couldn't sing. I just feel some fans are being really negative. She already said she does have nodules. Let's get more educated on what those are instead making Mariah out to be like a failure, mess, or has been. We should support her and be more positive. (Monday 9 December 2013; 23:00)

DC performance (40,150) by Stacey from USA What this performance proves is Mariah is human. Some days she is on, sounding great, and some days she is off. This was an off night. I'm sure haters will drag this out. But if anyone can bounce back, it's MC, especially during her favorite time of year: Christmas. I mean if the haters want to keep it going, all we have to do is play that impromptu performance on Fallon. (Monday 9 December 2013; 22:59)

Grammys (40,149) by Jeanette from USA I'm watching some of these older Grammys shows on YouTube and it amazed me that Whitney Houston and Celine Dion both have album of the year but Mariah Carey doesn't. The Grammys did Mariah dirty and she deserves to have at least won album of the year for Music Box or Daydream or even The Emancipation Of Mimi. What are your guy's thoughts? (Monday 9 December 2013; 22:30)

Tree lighting ceremony (40,148) by Ryan from Canada IMO this performance wasn't great but it wasn't as bad as reading this board makes it sound like it was. She sang well most of the song. It was the break in her high note at the end that sounded awful. Obviously it caught her with as much surprise as it did us. I'm sure she will rest her voice and sound fantastic for the New Year show. (Monday 9 December 2013; 20:42)

I could have done better (40,147) by Joyce from USA It seem like there is more physical exertion in singing these days than before. Her body posture, facial expression looks so strenuous. That is how I can tell when she is really singing live. When she lips, she has an easier time to focus on her appearance in her performance. My opinion is she really doesn’t get those vocal chords a workout as she use to. Though, she is much better than the time she tried to sing "I want to know what love is" on one of those morning shows in 2009. She needs a serious vocal work out. Celine, Barbra Striesand even Donna Summer before she died are older than MC and sound great. Before some fanatic says not to compare, know that I am not. I'm saying that age does not deteriorate vocals at MC young age or at least so drastically except if you don't use them enough. (Monday 9 December 2013; 20:12)

Get a grip (40,146) by Zachary from Croatia You guys crack me up. Career over? Mariah's voice is over? Please. What do you fucking expect, that she is a voice robot with a coin slit to put and to make her perform flawless? Please. I am ashamed of some of you. (Monday 9 December 2013; 19:18)

Mariah is not pefect (40,145) by Brad Catoe from United States Also the New York performance was really amazing. I was impressed, especially with how cold it was. Sometimes this board get really critical and hateful. Mariah's career over with? I don't think so. I hope she doesn't read this board because I think there are way more lambs than not who think she sounds fabulous. Does anybody remember her performance of AIWFCIY last year in New York? I thought it was one of the best in her career. I think it's human nature to see the negative in things. Also people who have negative things are mire vocal by nature. I hope Mariah knows that there are many who still love her voice. I have a friend who always says Mariah on her worst day sounds better than anyone else out there and I agree. I'm just glad at this point in her career she is still invited all over the world to sing. (Monday 9 December 2013; 17:29)

Re: Licia (40,144) by Billy from Greece Hi there. Could please let me know where you got your profile photo from? It's awesome! (Monday 9 December 2013; 15:57)

Re: Paul (40,143) by Billy from Greece "O come all ye faithful" Christmas in Washington 2010 was fucking epically fantastic. What wrong did you find in that performance? (Monday 9 December 2013; 15:32)

It was a rough performance (DC tree lighting) (40,142) by Deedre aka MiTodoChop @HBF from Canada No denying that, but as Licia said, she knows it was not her finest hour. What's done is done. I'm positive she feels bad about it and is embarrassed. I think talk of retirement is taking things too far. True, she's not 1990 Mariah anymore, but I disagree that The Rockefeller Center performance can also be considered rough. I thought she was fantastic, and she's still one of the only singers on the planet who can sound like a studio recording or better live (when her vocal is on point). (Monday 9 December 2013; 15:23)

Jaker20 (40,141) by Licia from USA It's easy for you to say she needs to stay away from singing older songs, but you and I both know she can't do that. She not only has to find ways to bring in new fans, but she still has to somehow appease the older fans as well. I enjoy when she breaks out the old stuff. When she doesn't try to sing like 20 year old Mariah and adjusts the songs to where 43 year old Mariah with her current vocal state can sing, she does a great job. Anyway that last performance was bad. I have no idea what went wrong. I'm not going to pretend to know or assume anything. Nobody knows whether she drank before the performance. All these theories are pointless unless you were. It was just bad and she knows it was bad. End of story. (Monday 9 December 2013; 14:52)

MC still rocks! (40,140) by Lainsky from Philippines After watching those performances of JTTW and AIWFCIY at the Rockefeller Christmas tree lighting, I can say that Mariah still rocks it. So to all who are saying that her voice and music career is over, I guess you have to wake up. For as long as the world celebrates Christmas, she will be around with these classic songs, whether live or on radio. Again, she has nothing to prove anymore for she has proven herself already thus, with or without a new album coming, she is still very much in the scene. Besides, only few artist can manage to stay that long like her in the entertainment industry and I can say that MC is still too young to retire and say "it's over". Without her, music industry will never be the same. Common guys, she's really good. Admit it. (Monday 9 December 2013; 11:25)

AIWFCIY In washington performance (40,139) by Paul from Usa I just watched the performance. I actually live in Washington and was going to take my chances and listen to go performance or possibly get in, but the weather really took a turn for the worse that day. It was about 30 degrees and damp, pouring rain all day. I wonder if that had an effect on her voice. Also I've noticed, each time Mariah performs in front of the president, or any other person she looks up to, she somehow screws up. "Chain of fools" Divas Live 98 "Medley" with Diana Ross, Divas 2000 "O come all ye faithful" Christmas in Washington 2010 And there are others. Do you guys wonder if she's just bored, and not passionate about music anymore? Everyone gets bored with their jobs, no matter how much they like it. But sometimes the stuff that comes out of her mouth is so strange and awkward (ie the end of this performance, and her latest appearance on Jimmy Fallon, HSN). I wonder what's going on through her mind sometimes. She's definitely not the same Mariah she was in her earlier days. It's great to have a bit of fun, but sometimes you need to buckle down and be a adult. I wonder if she ever watches her appearances and performances? She's lost all the special perfectionist touches. (Monday 9 December 2013; 11:17)

Retirement (40,138) by jaker20 from US I don't think retirement is the answer. The answer is for her to adapt to the new times. Adapting doesn't necessarily mean changing yourself to something you are not. Look at Christina, her Say Something collab is doing very well which is not a belt song. MC should do the same, ie expand her art, work with new artist, collaborate, and most importantly, stop singing those high notes that are so old-fashioned and makes you belt or do high notes. Sure they are "impressive" notes, sure that is her brand, but they are also corny and old fashioned. She is not the same, and she has to recognize this and rebrand herself soon, otherwise this is it for her. #Beautiful was a great start, but she and her label ruined the promo of that song. Some of you may say AIWFCIY isn't really a belt song, that's not true. Halfway through the song she sings in a higher key and it stays there. She did well with Fallon, because it's acapella and a small room. But outdoors and with a band, her voice is drowned. She needs to create new songs that support the current state of her voice. (Monday 9 December 2013; 9:39)

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