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Re: What More Can I Give? (94,306) (94,312) by Ma from Germany Hello Andrew, first of all, I wish to say I am sorry for assuming that you were English. In Germany, "English" or "England" is commonly used to refer to all of the UK which is of course ignorant and I should have know better. With that being said, I will disregard what you said about me demanding others to feel insulted and also the insinuation that I have problems with people's nationality, race, and sexuality. You don't know me thus I won't take it personally and come on, I'm a male person on a Mariah Carey fanpage, so I am queer. (Not to say that there aren't straight male lambs.) Also, I merely quoted this article because it had some examples of rioting and looting and I wanted to put my point in a certain context. Again, this is a Mariah Carey fanboard, I am not going to give you a university essay with a whole bibliography. As to the rest of your post: I found what you wrote very interesting and I agree with it. I also agree with the fact that looting stores etc. destroys other people's jobs and livelihoods. I also know that of course, also some white people have it really bad and some people belonging to minority groups are really well off. What I had a problem with and where my anger came from was that your original post lacked "a rational conclusion that relies upon detail and thought" as you put it, and I hate to say, but this is often the case with what you post. You often post such crude and hurtful things, Andrew, and you often come across as very bitter and arrogant and full of resentment (and it has gotten you banned from this board or has made other people leave this board). And that original post to me was yet again so superficial and over-generalizing and lumping everyone into one category and so little differentiated. Of course I could have used a different, more argumentative approach to replying but I just think that everything has a place and a time and now is not the place and time for whataboutisms or lumping everyone into one category or being undifferentiated and not mindful with one's own words while making very inappropriate jokes. I think now is a time to only say things if you have things to say and otherwise amplify the voices that need to be heard. So thank you for giving this detailed answer and showing that you actually care and are aware. (Thursday 4 June 2020; 18:57)

Re: What More Can I Give? (94,310) (94,311) by RibbonB from USA Spot on. And a lot of the disruptors are there intentionally to muddy the waters and co opt the energy of real and true protectors for change. There are even videos of cops or other agents panting bricks, or destroying property while legitimate protesters beg them to stop. It warms my heart to see the show of solidarity from protectors in all parts of the world. Sadly there are always opportunists during moments of chaos and unrest and that includes our pathetic president. (Thursday 4 June 2020; 18:43)

Re: What More Can I Give? (94,307) (94,310) by Licia from USA As a black woman I am proud that people are protesting and fighting for change. We just want people to hear us and understand why we feel unsafe. George Floyd never should have died in that way. No one deserves to die that way considering what they say he allegedly did. It's unfortunate that the protests are being overshadowed by the riots and the looting. ThIs sucks because I know that alot of the people that's doing this are not protesters. These are a group of people from all races and ethnicities whose soul purpose was to cause unnecessary chaos and they know the media won't focus on or show too much of the peaceful protests that are happening all over the world. I'm sad about the whole situation because the riots and looting seem to give people another reason to ignore the real underlying issue which is that many people (who happen to be black) have lost their lives unjustly at the hands of people who are supposed to serve and protect. (Thursday 4 June 2020; 16:47)

Re: What More Can I Give? (94,306) (94,309) by Chicago Lamb from USA Andrew, Thank you. That had to be said. #Justice4Caution (Thursday 4 June 2020; 16:30)

Re: What More Can I Give? (94,304) (94,308) by Andrew from the United Kingdom Of course it is morally outrageous. But one wrong cannot make morally justifiable another wrong. And criminals using the morally sound purpose of the protests as a screen for their criminality should be punished. Anyway, What More Can I Give was mooted by MJ as the sequel to We Are The World. Unfortunately, it's just nowhere near as good a song. We Are The World at Pavarotti and Friends is still my favourite group performance thing of all time. Mariah's high notes are possibly the most thrilling she has ever done (alongside the performance with Patti Labelle). I listen to it every week. (Thursday 4 June 2020; 15:55)

Re: What More Can I Give? (94,302) (94,307) by Bill from the UK Jade you always handle yourself with such grace and decorum. A class act indeed. Hope you're well. (Thursday 4 June 2020; 15:40)

Re: What More Can I Give? (94,299) (94,306) by Andrew from the United Kingdom "And here we go again with the moral blabla by a privileged, white, English man. Must be great to sit up in your ivory tower." By referring to my race to dismiss my opinion you are a racist. If you do not think yourself one I can assure you that the law and anyone with a reasoned mind would disagree. You also assume my nationality of which you are mistaken. I am not an Englishman. I could take offense, as you would probably demand everyone do as a hobby, but I am not precious and you do not matter, so I will not. "So if you don't understand this, Andrew, inform yourself and don't just again spurt out your opinions that can be very hurtful and inappropriate and blame those who have no other means of expressing their rage." Reading a liberal leftwing journalist is not tantamount to being "informed". I have lived my adult life in Greenwich and Woolwich in South East London which is multi-ethnic and diverse and I studied antidiscrimination law in university (a university degree I worked two jobs to pay for). Tour approach is simply to paint anyone who doesn't agree with your way of thinking a certain way. Your arguments are easy to dismiss. I do not believe that rage is expressed by somebody putting on a mask and running through the smashed window of a GAP and running home with the latest fashionwear. I believe that many people use genuine protests to commit crimes that they long to commit anyway. This is all counter-productive as it tends to remove sympathy for those protesting the actual injustice. "[W]hile you will never know what a black person goes through." You do not have to have a particular characteristic to recognise injustice. Even the suggestion of that is laughable and idiotic as well as the idea that all black people lead insufferable lives and all white people have it easy. I know white people who don't have a pot to piss in, and I know and know of black, Asian and minority ethnic people who have great wealth and nice lives. Your blanket approach is basic and simply not founded in any reality but serves only to let you to live a life of easy sanctimony. "And if you have nothing constructive to say, please, for once, shut up." Nothing you have said here is constructive. In fact, it seems that you have issues with people of a certain race, nationality and sexual orientation. It is quite typical of a left wing libertarian to make the argument so basic as to lose any semblance of the possibility of rational conclusion, and then to enact the very same disgraceful behaviour they would claim to detest upon those who try to reach a rational conclusion that relies upon detail and thought. That a man is intentionally and unlawfully killed by a police officer is morally distressing. That this unlawful killing should be fuelled by hatred of one or many immutable characteristics such as skin colour is even more morally outrageous. Justice must be served and the police officer, having been arrested for this crime, will likely spend the rest of his life behind bars in solitary confinement for his own protection. There is clearly a problem with disproportionate suffering of police brutality in the US between people of different races which has many contributing factors and requires deep multi-varied analyses. That people wish to protest this and highlight it is a moral good. But change, I fear, will not be quick, and people cannot keep burning down the communities in which they and others live. Lawlessness cannot prevail. Thus, those who are assaulting police officers, committing arson, causing damage, breaking and entering, and stealing for their own gain are committing crimes and must, themselves, be brought to justice. Burning down businesses endangers lives and costs people their livelihoods leading to unemployment, homelessness and destitution. I feel no sympathy for the person at home trying on the latest fashionwear or watching the latest television freshly looted whilst employees look on wondering how they are going to put food on the table, firefighters risk their lives to protect people, police officers who have done no wrong are assaulted and brave people use their time on the front lines of the protests trying to highlight to their government a need for a genuine proactive and results-laden approach. (Thursday 4 June 2020; 15:38)

Re: What More Can I Give? (94,297) (94,305) by Edouard from France What Andrew said, especially his choice of words, is pure indecency. Thank you webmaster for allowing my message. And yet, how come such blatant insensitivity is permitted on this board? I don't understand. Don't wish to. (Thursday 4 June 2020; 15:32)

Re: What More Can I Give? (94,303) (94,304) by Todd from Melbourne, Australia Damn. I thought I'd just get some requests for the mp3 to be emailed. I'll just pop those worms back into this here can. But also, murder should cause more outrage than looting. (Thursday 4 June 2020; 14:04)

Re: What More Can I Give? (94,299) (94,303) by Tijl from Belgium Sadly the current administration is exploiting the current situation for their right-winged agenda with a lot of help from their media connections. Shifting the focus from why people are so angry and volatile by simply degrading and portraying them as trash. This once happened on a big scale decades ago in Europe and we all know how that ended. (Thursday 4 June 2020; 10:30)

Re: What More Can I Give? (94,299) (94,302) by Anonymous from Thank you Manuel, I learnt a lot from what you had to say. I'm now going to do some research, especially about the trans black woman/riots. (Thursday 4 June 2020; 10:30)

Re: What More Can I Give? (94,284) (94,301) by Anonymous from In Andrew's defence I don't think he was trying to cause upset, he clearly knows the murder of George Floyd is a crime and a travesty. Everyone doesn't know the ins and out of things, and sometimes we have to share information to highlight a different perspective. I'm not about dragging someone's down for their views, challenging and giving insight is more conservative. I was conscious about sharing my original post in fear of causing upset and looking stupid. Please don't make this about bashing each other, especially over such a sensitive subject. Let's make this about learning from one another, for people to share respectfully. (Thursday 4 June 2020; 10:26)

Re: What More Can I Give? (94,291) (94,300) by Ma from Germany Great post Jade. Exactly my sentiments. (Thursday 4 June 2020; 07:51)

Re: What More Can I Give? (94,284) (94,299) by Ma from Germany And here we go again with the moral blabla by a privileged, white, English man. Must be great to sit up in your ivory tower, having seen through "those people and communities", having exposed their "true colors" and their "lawless behavior" and not trying to understand why this might be the last resort some people have. Here's an excerpt from an article. As part of the coverage of the protests, news stations aired videos and images of protestors vandalizing storefronts. In Minneapolis, the Target on Lake Street - the location closest to where George Floyd was killed - was battered. In Los Angeles, the high-end shops of Rodeo Drive saw broken windows. In New York City, fireworks went off near Chanel and other designer boutiques. Upon seeing those images, the conversation shifted for many Americans. They turned away from what the protestors were fighting for and toward questions about what the future would hold for glossy corporate storefronts, high-end shopping centers, and the concept of retail therapy - they valued property over human lives. Property damage during protests, though, isn't done without reason, and the destruction of these businesses comes from a place of pain and mourning and, yes, anger. This is part of the nature of protests, including the 1991 Rodney King riots in Los Angeles, and the Stonewall Inn riots in 1969, which famously started after a brick was thrown through a window. When a business is destroyed during a protest, it tears down the wall between "us vs. them", showing how property belonging to "them" - wealthier, usually white people - is just an illusion that can easily be shattered. Or as MLK jr would say: A riot is the language of the unheard. So if you don't understand this, Andrew, inform yourself and don't just again spurt out your opinions that can be very hurtful and inappropriate and blame those who have no other means of expressing their rage, while you will never know what a black person goes through. Of course some people take advantage of this and it is out of the question that this is bad. But sadly a lot of the conversation is now turning into "oh no, they're destroying our favorite shops", so please don't add to that discourse. And if you have nothing constructive to say, please, for once, shut up. And remember that it was rioting and looting during the Stonewall riots by black transwomen that is enabling you to live your happy little gay London life. So take several seats. (Thursday 4 June 2020; 07:49)

Re: What More Can I Give? (94,284) (94,298) by Steven Berning from USA Wait, does Andrew work for Showbiz 411 and Drew Brees? (Thursday 4 June 2020; 07:32)

Re: What More Can I Give? (94,284) (94,297) by Edouard from France There is something seriously wrong with you man. (Thursday 4 June 2020; 04:22)

Blood Orange / Insecure (94,296) by RibbonB from USA Last Sunday's episode of Insecure closed with a cool retro sounding Blood Orange song, Out of Her League, I think it's titled. Such a nice little bop. I so want to hear a Mariah song featured on that show. (Thursday 4 June 2020; 04:04)

Re: Ribbon and Licia (94,293) (94,295) by RibbonB from USA Too far Bill. (Thursday 4 June 2020; 04:00)

Re: Ribbon and Licia (94,290) (94,294) by RibbonB from USA Lots of delulu's edit Wikipedia though tbf. I bet Mimi skips over all of it in her much ballyhooed forthcoming memoirs. (Thursday 4 June 2020; 03:55)

Re: Ribbon and Licia (94,290) (94,293) by Bill from the UK Let's not forget Mariah's one hand now has twenty five fingers on it. (Wednesday 3 June 2020; 22:01)

Re: Ribbon and Licia (94,290) (94,292) by Licia from USA Lmao *slides under my desk*. (Wednesday 3 June 2020; 21:35)

Re: What More Can I Give? (94,284) (94,291) by Anonymous from Disclaimer- I'm not the most articulate on here nor do I consider myself to be political. I speak from the heart. I hear you Andy, it's a disgrace that riots resort to looting, however targeting black people and killing them has to stop. Theirs rioting and then theirs looting. To me, what's worse is that the spotlight seems to shine brighter on the looting, rather then the real issue, that people are still being murdered everyday due to the colour of their skin. To top it off, injustice is the usual outcome. Call me wrong but if my husband, dad, or grandad for example were murdered due to the colour of their skin, and justice wasn't served, I would expect/want an uproar, especially when cries for change have gone unheard, time and time again. I'm not saying this is the case right now, although I really hope it is, but when Dr Martin Luther King was murdered, 110 cities in America started rioting, causing $47M in damage. On the 6th day of the riots, the Civil Rights Act 1968 was passed. As I touched on earlier, I don't agree with looting but sometimes it's the last resort due to the build up of sheer anger and frustration. It's a shame that buildings can have have greater worth and respect then a black mans life. Burning buildings are a concern to me yes, but human life is more. I guess for some people, they are outright opportunists, again I don't agree with this. But, some people have the view that why should they care for the law when the law doesn't care for them. People shouldn't have to live in fear of losing life due to skin tone. For black men especially, this can be a daily occurrence, particularly when the police are concerned. George Floyd did not deserve to go the way that he did, nor did the countless brothers before him, especially by people who are suppose to serve and protect. I can't believe that in 2020, one of my biggest fears for my unborn child, is how they could be treated due to the colour of their skin. Please don't get me wrong, I don't condone any form of mistreatment or inequalities of others, and yes all lives matters. But right now, black lives matters, the injustice and unfair treatment is blatant and is too hard to ignore, nor can we kid ourselves that it isn't that bad, it really is. PS I wanted to share my thoughts with everyone, not just you so please don’t think I’m singling you out. That was not my intention (Wednesday 3 June 2020; 21:02)

Ribbon and Licia (94,290) by Edward from USA You two are ridiculous. When the person who has been cheated on is a "so called criminal", the cheater is justified. And besides, there's no evidence Mariah broke her rule of having only slept with five men or less. So, it's technically not cheating. I found that in Wikipedia too. (Wednesday 3 June 2020; 19:09)

Re: Producers / this_is_qhm (94,285) (94,289) by Edward from USA Oh my, that's a fresh idea nobody has ever mentioned here before. Pure genius. (Wednesday 3 June 2020; 18:57)

Re: Ultimate disrespect (94,280) (94,288) by Licia from USA Lmao Robert-Anthony hush. J/k. Glad I could provide some sort of comic relief. 2020 has definitely been a sh*t show. (Wednesday 3 June 2020; 17:37)

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