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The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,139) by Bill from the UK There was a brief window of time, from the debut through to Unplugged, when Mariah was Mariah. This era is what I would deem the authentic Mariah. It was before she became heavily manicured and manufactured, and before her career was as calculated for success as during Music Box and Daydream. It was before she was married where, in Mariah's words, she married him hoping he would "lighten up" but it made him more insecure and controlling than he was beforehand. It was also before the diva persona took up residence and when she was a sincere and capable singer who said to Lorraine Kelly in 1990 "I would never lip sync", right after the Milli Vanilli scandal. Now we're lucky if we get a line sung live. Of course nobody here wants her to be unhappy, even the OGs. But there was a spark she had in the beginning that dimmed over time. And really, can we honestly say she has been happy post-Tommy? People love to say post-1997 she was free and independent and happy, but that has never been the case. She's had a string of heartbreaks, career setbacks, and an image/creativity crisis in the decades that followed. She seemed momentarily happy and content with Nick and the arrival of the babies, but then that went south pretty quickly. So, all we can do is love her. That can be supporting everything she does, or taking the hard decision to call out things that she perhaps shouldn't be doing. When Mariah leaves us (I pray not for a long, long, long time), her career should be remembered for the incredible string of achievements she trail-blazed, the wonderful songs that captured a generation, a Christmas song that will endure forevermore, and being one of the greatest voices we have ever heard. Not as this caricature diva worried about lighting and splashes, being celebrated as the "Queen of shade" (that's not a good thing), wearing lingerie and lip synching to engineered vocals that cannot be replicated live. But who am I? (Monday 28 July 2025; 18:01) this is a reply to message 110,131

The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,131) by Matthew from USA Every time someone on here proclaims themselves an OG, I have to take a deep breath and proceed with caution. Mariah has stated multiple times how controlled and unhappy she was in the first several years of her career. She threw herself into her work and convinced herself this was the price she had to pay for success. Other friends like Brat even wondered "How do you live like this?" It's a little weird to see all the OG's being nostalgic for this era. The OG's say she was a proper lady in this era - classy, dignified, pristine, graceful, and her true authentic self. They mourn her current state, which one is left to assume is the opposite of all those adjectives. I'm not here to invalidate anyone's opinion, but I can provide another perspective that Terna expressed - we both happen to be black. In our culture Mariah is viewed as bougie and fancy. Initially we were like "Who is this white girl singing down like that? Okay Mariah, Get down with your bad self. Do your thing, girl." I don't think one culture's perspective is more important than another's, but I think we should remember to try and view the whole. I do think Mariah would be disheartened that who she is now is causing so much sadness and heartache to the OG's. But I don't think she would go back (and no shade, but I heard the Walter song and I agree with her). I think she would sadly hand y'all the Art of Letting Go record. Go to Mimi on your contacts. Press delete. End your suffering. If it's any consolation, the OG's can always treasure the memory of Tommy controlled Mariah, when she was being her true authentic self. (Monday 28 July 2025; 13:59)

The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,138) by Stacey from USA I don't wish that control on anyone. Looking In beautifully and tragically sums up Mariah's feelings about it all. I am thinking of post 96. Watch Oprah's interview in 2002 during CB promotion. She was eloquent, animated, beautiful. Same with her Rosie interviews. I don't have to look to the Tommy era when comparing with her latest Kimmel appearance. Something is off. Thank you, though for your thoughts. It's nice to have a good discussion. (Monday 28 July 2025; 17:37) this is a reply to message 110,131

The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,131) by Matthew from USA Every time someone on here proclaims themselves an OG, I have to take a deep breath and proceed with caution. Mariah has stated multiple times how controlled and unhappy she was in the first several years of her career. She threw herself into her work and convinced herself this was the price she had to pay for success. Other friends like Brat even wondered "How do you live like this?" It's a little weird to see all the OG's being nostalgic for this era. The OG's say she was a proper lady in this era - classy, dignified, pristine, graceful, and her true authentic self. They mourn her current state, which one is left to assume is the opposite of all those adjectives. I'm not here to invalidate anyone's opinion, but I can provide another perspective that Terna expressed - we both happen to be black. In our culture Mariah is viewed as bougie and fancy. Initially we were like "Who is this white girl singing down like that? Okay Mariah, Get down with your bad self. Do your thing, girl." I don't think one culture's perspective is more important than another's, but I think we should remember to try and view the whole. I do think Mariah would be disheartened that who she is now is causing so much sadness and heartache to the OG's. But I don't think she would go back (and no shade, but I heard the Walter song and I agree with her). I think she would sadly hand y'all the Art of Letting Go record. Go to Mimi on your contacts. Press delete. End your suffering. If it's any consolation, the OG's can always treasure the memory of Tommy controlled Mariah, when she was being her true authentic self. (Monday 28 July 2025; 13:59)

The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,137) by Bobby A from United States Have you noticed a change in MC's speaking voice in the past 2 months during interviews? I wonder if it is because she is just getting older or a direct correlation to her vocal decline. Her speaking voice is very raspy now and she has lost her New York accent. I noticed it first during the Apple interview when she said 11 or 12. And I noticed it again during the New Music Daily interview. (Monday 28 July 2025; 17:09) this is a reply to message 110,134

The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,134) by Dove from United States It's funny that you mention that because I was thinking about it, and I started to write a post about it, but then I deleted it because I didn't want it to be taken the wrong way. But since you brought it up I'm just going to go for it and hopefully nobody gets offended. I don't even know how to start so I'm just going to bleed on here and hopefully it makes sense to someone. My mom and my dad (who raised me) are Mexican so I grew up as a poor child of immigrants and my dad was a really mean alcoholic back then. I didn't see him sober until I was an adult. We lived in a military town and there was also an Indian reservation next to our town. Also, my mom was raped by a white military guy, and that's how I was conceived. So I'm a light skinned Mexican, and technically half white, but culturally I'm Mexican. Spanish was my first language. I'm just giving that backstory to say that I don't think I'm better than anyone. I grew up in the ghetto with a clinically depressed mom and an alcoholic dad who hated me because everyone would always ask him why I was white. What happened to my mom was the worst thing that ever happened to her in her whole life. I was thinking about it and mostly the people who have big breasts, and hips, and behinds are Blacks and Latinas where I live. You can't turn on the TV on the Spanish channels without seeing half naked very young women, meanwhile the men are all old and pervy looking. I don't watch BET (or much TV anymore for that matter, mostly YouTube) but I feel like it's similar. The women are overly sexualized. I don't like it. And it's not a culture thing because the older black and Mexican artists don't dress or act that way. I think they (the powers that be) do it on purpose so that minorities won't get ahead. It's systemic oppression. Older black women are IMO some of the wisest people to exist because of all they've been through. There's a few on YouTube I like to watch and listen to. There's one lady who has six kids by five different dads and she had her first one at 16. She says that back then she didn't know better so she would just have sex with whoever. None of the dads would help her with the kids, either. Her own dad wasn't in her life so she was just looking for love wherever she could get it. She is a smart, wise, and very sweet lady. If her legs hadn't been cut out from under her so early she could have been really successful. But she never even had a chance. She's finally doing it now, but her kids, who would have benefited from it the most, are all grown up now. She said she used to work so much that her kids had to stay home alone a lot and she hardly spent any time with them. Luckily they did stay inside the house and didn't go out and hang out with other impressionable and inexperienced young kids on the street and get into other types of trouble. I'm not saying sex is bad. It's beautiful but it's also "death energy" and it shouldn't be thrown around and used so flippantly. Sex can change your whole life. If you have a child, the old you dies forever. Maybe for rich celebrities it doesn't matter because they can still survive and be comfortable but people on the bottom half of the income bracket - they're the ones who are really going feel it and suffer. And now they want to make abortions illegal. If they're going to do that they should at least make birth control free. (Also, because I know someone is going to say it, I do believe in God but I don't think God would be against abortion in all cases. I don't agree with every single thing the church says. I'm more spiritual than religious and I believe you can still be a good person with morals and a strong relationship with God even if you're not religious.) I like to watch Bj Invesigates/That Surprise Witness on YouTube. I don't agree with every single thing she says but a lot of it I do. (Most of it I do.) In this video she talks about how in 1991 music started changing because it started to be used as a "rap to prison pipeline". They want to continue using blacks and other minorities as slaves. Everyone should watch this because I always kind of suspected this but she spelled it out so clearly. I have another conspiracy theory. I think the real reason the Kardashians have kids with black men is because those kids are going to be the future influencers and they want to lead the lower income blacks and minorities astray. Mixed people look ambiguous. IMO they're the most beautiful because they get the best of the gene pools and they appeal to a larger group of people because they could be anything. We like seeing ourselves succeeding and doing great things through other people on TV. We follow them. We want to be like them. There's a movie I watched a while ago called The Joneses. It's with Demi Moore. It's about stealth advertising and how they use real celebrities and manufactured ones (like the Kardashians) to get people to buy stuff they can't afford to keep them stuck running on the slave wheel. I know this was a mess but hopefully you guys understand what I'm trying to say. I just want celebrities to be better influences on the youth who are so impressionable and just need someone to look up to. I hope I don't sound hypocritical because I do enjoy Mariah's "sexy" songs and I like sexy clothes sometimes but at times it crosses a line and it's not sexy anymore. I don't even know what it is. (Monday 28 July 2025; 15:46)

Sugar Sweet (110,136) by Dove from United States I like this interpretation much better. (Monday 28 July 2025; 16:33) this is a reply to message 110,135

Sugar Sweet (110,135) by Matthew from USA The lyric is expressing Mariah's determination to never be a side piece. She is going to be the official main squeeze of any man she is with. She's saying she will absolutely get the ring. And I guess she has a history of being proposed to, like Elizabeth Taylor. It could also be a subtle dig to Nick's harem, none of whom got the ring. Given the declining marriage rates, it could also be viewed as a somewhat positive message to young girls. Just keep it nice and neat. (Monday 28 July 2025; 15:47)

Sugar Sweet (110,135) by Matthew from USA The lyric is expressing Mariah's determination to never be a side piece. She is going to be the official main squeeze of any man she is with. She's saying she will absolutely get the ring. And I guess she has a history of being proposed to, like Elizabeth Taylor. It could also be a subtle dig to Nick's harem, none of whom got the ring. Given the declining marriage rates, it could also be viewed as a somewhat positive message to young girls. Just keep it nice and neat. (Monday 28 July 2025; 15:47) this is a reply to message 110,132

Sugar Sweet (110,132) by Dove from United States When I listened to the lyrics to Sugar Sweet, the first thing I thought of was that song "I don't cook, I don't clean, but let me tell you how I got this ring." Which I had actually never heard before, but I saw a meme with those lyrics and I had to look it up. So she's saying she's going to do dirty things until she gets an engagement ring? Or maybe dirty things in a nice and sweet way? I don't think that's how she really feels though, I think it's just a song. I don't think she trusts men anymore, and honestly, when you're that rich you shouldn't even get married IMO. Ugh I just remembered when Nick was presenting at the BET awards in 2014 and Zendeya asked him if he had any advice for an up and comer. He said, "Marry well" or something tacky like that. Yuk. This was when their divorce was happening so it felt like an icicle right through my heart. (Vicariously.) I think she doesn't trust men anymore because of some of the lyrics in Type: Dangerous. They wanna settle down but I just don't trust 'em They wanna lock me down, but there's no handcuffin' said we'd be together, but you didn't stay forever now I guess it's just whatever 'til the twelfth of never. I just played it because I didn't remember the lyrics and it gave me chills when she sang, "I've never been afraid of love." I mean, I'm traumatized by love so maybe I'm projecting. But people always put their best face forward at first and then once they know they've got your heart they start neglecting you and the "love" goes away. People should wait like seven years before they get married. I think that's how long it takes to really know someone. I read that in a book one time and I wish I would have heeded that advice. I'm glad she's not afraid of love though. I love that for her. Sugar Sweet also reminds me of Rock the Boat by Aaliyah. (Monday 28 July 2025; 14:30)

The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,134) by Dove from United States It's funny that you mention that because I was thinking about it, and I started to write a post about it, but then I deleted it because I didn't want it to be taken the wrong way. But since you brought it up I'm just going to go for it and hopefully nobody gets offended. I don't even know how to start so I'm just going to bleed on here and hopefully it makes sense to someone. My mom and my dad (who raised me) are Mexican so I grew up as a poor child of immigrants and my dad was a really mean alcoholic back then. I didn't see him sober until I was an adult. We lived in a military town and there was also an Indian reservation next to our town. Also, my mom was raped by a white military guy, and that's how I was conceived. So I'm a light skinned Mexican, and technically half white, but culturally I'm Mexican. Spanish was my first language. I'm just giving that backstory to say that I don't think I'm better than anyone. I grew up in the ghetto with a clinically depressed mom and an alcoholic dad who hated me because everyone would always ask him why I was white. What happened to my mom was the worst thing that ever happened to her in her whole life. I was thinking about it and mostly the people who have big breasts, and hips, and behinds are Blacks and Latinas where I live. You can't turn on the TV on the Spanish channels without seeing half naked very young women, meanwhile the men are all old and pervy looking. I don't watch BET (or much TV anymore for that matter, mostly YouTube) but I feel like it's similar. The women are overly sexualized. I don't like it. And it's not a culture thing because the older black and Mexican artists don't dress or act that way. I think they (the powers that be) do it on purpose so that minorities won't get ahead. It's systemic oppression. Older black women are IMO some of the wisest people to exist because of all they've been through. There's a few on YouTube I like to watch and listen to. There's one lady who has six kids by five different dads and she had her first one at 16. She says that back then she didn't know better so she would just have sex with whoever. None of the dads would help her with the kids, either. Her own dad wasn't in her life so she was just looking for love wherever she could get it. She is a smart, wise, and very sweet lady. If her legs hadn't been cut out from under her so early she could have been really successful. But she never even had a chance. She's finally doing it now, but her kids, who would have benefited from it the most, are all grown up now. She said she used to work so much that her kids had to stay home alone a lot and she hardly spent any time with them. Luckily they did stay inside the house and didn't go out and hang out with other impressionable and inexperienced young kids on the street and get into other types of trouble. I'm not saying sex is bad. It's beautiful but it's also "death energy" and it shouldn't be thrown around and used so flippantly. Sex can change your whole life. If you have a child, the old you dies forever. Maybe for rich celebrities it doesn't matter because they can still survive and be comfortable but people on the bottom half of the income bracket - they're the ones who are really going feel it and suffer. And now they want to make abortions illegal. If they're going to do that they should at least make birth control free. (Also, because I know someone is going to say it, I do believe in God but I don't think God would be against abortion in all cases. I don't agree with every single thing the church says. I'm more spiritual than religious and I believe you can still be a good person with morals and a strong relationship with God even if you're not religious.) I like to watch Bj Invesigates/That Surprise Witness on YouTube. I don't agree with every single thing she says but a lot of it I do. (Most of it I do.) In this video she talks about how in 1991 music started changing because it started to be used as a "rap to prison pipeline". They want to continue using blacks and other minorities as slaves. Everyone should watch this because I always kind of suspected this but she spelled it out so clearly. I have another conspiracy theory. I think the real reason the Kardashians have kids with black men is because those kids are going to be the future influencers and they want to lead the lower income blacks and minorities astray. Mixed people look ambiguous. IMO they're the most beautiful because they get the best of the gene pools and they appeal to a larger group of people because they could be anything. We like seeing ourselves succeeding and doing great things through other people on TV. We follow them. We want to be like them. There's a movie I watched a while ago called The Joneses. It's with Demi Moore. It's about stealth advertising and how they use real celebrities and manufactured ones (like the Kardashians) to get people to buy stuff they can't afford to keep them stuck running on the slave wheel. I know this was a mess but hopefully you guys understand what I'm trying to say. I just want celebrities to be better influences on the youth who are so impressionable and just need someone to look up to. I hope I don't sound hypocritical because I do enjoy Mariah's "sexy" songs and I like sexy clothes sometimes but at times it crosses a line and it's not sexy anymore. I don't even know what it is. (Monday 28 July 2025; 15:46) this is a reply to message 110,131

The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,131) by Matthew from USA Every time someone on here proclaims themselves an OG, I have to take a deep breath and proceed with caution. Mariah has stated multiple times how controlled and unhappy she was in the first several years of her career. She threw herself into her work and convinced herself this was the price she had to pay for success. Other friends like Brat even wondered "How do you live like this?" It's a little weird to see all the OG's being nostalgic for this era. The OG's say she was a proper lady in this era - classy, dignified, pristine, graceful, and her true authentic self. They mourn her current state, which one is left to assume is the opposite of all those adjectives. I'm not here to invalidate anyone's opinion, but I can provide another perspective that Terna expressed - we both happen to be black. In our culture Mariah is viewed as bougie and fancy. Initially we were like "Who is this white girl singing down like that? Okay Mariah, Get down with your bad self. Do your thing, girl." I don't think one culture's perspective is more important than another's, but I think we should remember to try and view the whole. I do think Mariah would be disheartened that who she is now is causing so much sadness and heartache to the OG's. But I don't think she would go back (and no shade, but I heard the Walter song and I agree with her). I think she would sadly hand y'all the Art of Letting Go record. Go to Mimi on your contacts. Press delete. End your suffering. If it's any consolation, the OG's can always treasure the memory of Tommy controlled Mariah, when she was being her true authentic self. (Monday 28 July 2025; 13:59)

The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,133) by Jamie from UK Thank you for your spin on things, I most certainly will treasure those times, they were the best. (Monday 28 July 2025; 15:09) this is a reply to message 110,131

The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,131) by Matthew from USA Every time someone on here proclaims themselves an OG, I have to take a deep breath and proceed with caution. Mariah has stated multiple times how controlled and unhappy she was in the first several years of her career. She threw herself into her work and convinced herself this was the price she had to pay for success. Other friends like Brat even wondered "How do you live like this?" It's a little weird to see all the OG's being nostalgic for this era. The OG's say she was a proper lady in this era - classy, dignified, pristine, graceful, and her true authentic self. They mourn her current state, which one is left to assume is the opposite of all those adjectives. I'm not here to invalidate anyone's opinion, but I can provide another perspective that Terna expressed - we both happen to be black. In our culture Mariah is viewed as bougie and fancy. Initially we were like "Who is this white girl singing down like that? Okay Mariah, Get down with your bad self. Do your thing, girl." I don't think one culture's perspective is more important than another's, but I think we should remember to try and view the whole. I do think Mariah would be disheartened that who she is now is causing so much sadness and heartache to the OG's. But I don't think she would go back (and no shade, but I heard the Walter song and I agree with her). I think she would sadly hand y'all the Art of Letting Go record. Go to Mimi on your contacts. Press delete. End your suffering. If it's any consolation, the OG's can always treasure the memory of Tommy controlled Mariah, when she was being her true authentic self. (Monday 28 July 2025; 13:59)

Sugar Sweet (110,132) by Dove from United States When I listened to the lyrics to Sugar Sweet, the first thing I thought of was that song "I don't cook, I don't clean, but let me tell you how I got this ring." Which I had actually never heard before, but I saw a meme with those lyrics and I had to look it up. So she's saying she's going to do dirty things until she gets an engagement ring? Or maybe dirty things in a nice and sweet way? I don't think that's how she really feels though, I think it's just a song. I don't think she trusts men anymore, and honestly, when you're that rich you shouldn't even get married IMO. Ugh I just remembered when Nick was presenting at the BET awards in 2014 and Zendeya asked him if he had any advice for an up and comer. He said, "Marry well" or something tacky like that. Yuk. This was when their divorce was happening so it felt like an icicle right through my heart. (Vicariously.) I think she doesn't trust men anymore because of some of the lyrics in Type: Dangerous. They wanna settle down but I just don't trust 'em They wanna lock me down, but there's no handcuffin' said we'd be together, but you didn't stay forever now I guess it's just whatever 'til the twelfth of never. I just played it because I didn't remember the lyrics and it gave me chills when she sang, "I've never been afraid of love." I mean, I'm traumatized by love so maybe I'm projecting. But people always put their best face forward at first and then once they know they've got your heart they start neglecting you and the "love" goes away. People should wait like seven years before they get married. I think that's how long it takes to really know someone. I read that in a book one time and I wish I would have heeded that advice. I'm glad she's not afraid of love though. I love that for her. Sugar Sweet also reminds me of Rock the Boat by Aaliyah. (Monday 28 July 2025; 14:30)

The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,131) by Matthew from USA Every time someone on here proclaims themselves an OG, I have to take a deep breath and proceed with caution. Mariah has stated multiple times how controlled and unhappy she was in the first several years of her career. She threw herself into her work and convinced herself this was the price she had to pay for success. Other friends like Brat even wondered "How do you live like this?" It's a little weird to see all the OG's being nostalgic for this era. The OG's say she was a proper lady in this era - classy, dignified, pristine, graceful, and her true authentic self. They mourn her current state, which one is left to assume is the opposite of all those adjectives. I'm not here to invalidate anyone's opinion, but I can provide another perspective that Terna expressed - we both happen to be black. In our culture Mariah is viewed as bougie and fancy. Initially we were like "Who is this white girl singing down like that? Okay Mariah, Get down with your bad self. Do your thing, girl." I don't think one culture's perspective is more important than another's, but I think we should remember to try and view the whole. I do think Mariah would be disheartened that who she is now is causing so much sadness and heartache to the OG's. But I don't think she would go back (and no shade, but I heard the Walter song and I agree with her). I think she would sadly hand y'all the Art of Letting Go record. Go to Mimi on your contacts. Press delete. End your suffering. If it's any consolation, the OG's can always treasure the memory of Tommy controlled Mariah, when she was being her true authentic self. (Monday 28 July 2025; 13:59) this is a reply to message 110,129

The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,129) by Bill from the UK Well put Jamie, thank you. Loving your posts lately. It's always difficult when an OG goes up against a Yaas Queen because we seem to be diametrically opposed. Lucky for us though the board allows all opinions to be voiced. Whether you're an OG, Yaas Queen, or a sweet innocent lamb that sits somewhere in between. We love everyone. But some we love more than others. (Monday 28 July 2025; 12:53)

The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,130) by Jamie from UK Your [sic] most welcome (Monday 28 July 2025; 13:23) this is a reply to message 110,129

The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,129) by Bill from the UK Well put Jamie, thank you. Loving your posts lately. It's always difficult when an OG goes up against a Yaas Queen because we seem to be diametrically opposed. Lucky for us though the board allows all opinions to be voiced. Whether you're an OG, Yaas Queen, or a sweet innocent lamb that sits somewhere in between. We love everyone. But some we love more than others. (Monday 28 July 2025; 12:53)

The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,129) by Bill from the UK Well put Jamie, thank you. Loving your posts lately. It's always difficult when an OG goes up against a Yaas Queen because we seem to be diametrically opposed. Lucky for us though the board allows all opinions to be voiced. Whether you're an OG, Yaas Queen, or a sweet innocent lamb that sits somewhere in between. We love everyone. But some we love more than others. (Monday 28 July 2025; 12:53) this is a reply to message 110,126

The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,126) by Jamie from UK Aww this is a message board where people can voice their opinions. There was no negativity from any of my posts, we're not complaining as we are still supporting her by buying her music, as I said I like both TD and SS. I simply stating she is changed and how I personally would have liked her career to play out for the better, it doesn't mean I won't support her whatever she does or call her out for something I don't like. That is a true fan to me... being honest. You're the one calling people "silly fans" and "poison" and having a word censored. That isn't a nice trait. You're the one that should be ashamed of yourself, not us. (Monday 28 July 2025; 11:03)

The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,128) by Jamie from UK Thank you for the positivity. (Monday 28 July 2025; 11:07) this is a reply to message 110,122

The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,122) by Stacey from USA Seriously Jaime, you nailed it. Well put. (Monday 28 July 2025; 07:41)

They say she's the same but she isn't the same (110,127) by Jamie from UK I used to love watching Rosanne. (Monday 28 July 2025; 11:07) this is a reply to message 110,121

They say she's the same but she isn't the same (110,121) by Dove from United States Did you guys ever watch Roseanne? Does anyone remember how they switched the actresses who played Becky? It confused DJ and landed him in therapy. I was talking with my childhood friend about how MC looks like completely different people (both beautiful) at the beginning of her career and now. (Sidenote: of course it's expected that she would look different, everyone does with time, but since she still looks so young I don't expect her to look so different. It feels like five years instead of thirty, you know?) She started saying "They say she's the same but she isn't the same" but we couldn't remember where it was from. So I finally remembered and looked up the episode. We laughed so hard. It would be funny if MC did a skit like this with John Goodman. It's been so long now that probably nobody would remember this episode anymore, though. This was a highly rated show, does anyone else remember the episode where DJ says this? Anyway, I'm going to add a link so maybe somebody else can get a good laugh too. (Monday 28 July 2025; 06:01)

The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,126) by Jamie from UK Aww this is a message board where people can voice their opinions. There was no negativity from any of my posts, we're not complaining as we are still supporting her by buying her music, as I said I like both TD and SS. I simply stating she is changed and how I personally would have liked her career to play out for the better, it doesn't mean I won't support her whatever she does or call her out for something I don't like. That is a true fan to me... being honest. You're the one calling people "silly fans" and "poison" and having a word censored. That isn't a nice trait. You're the one that should be ashamed of yourself, not us. (Monday 28 July 2025; 11:03) this is a reply to message 110,113

The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,113) by Terna from Nigeria Someone needed to say it, thank you for this post. I too ain't the same person from when I started out being a fan in my teenage years, somehow they expect Mariah to remain the same. However, everything she is today, she's accomplished 35+ years in this music industry that we all know chews them up and spits them out (need I call names?) is because she's grounded in Christ first of all, and she follows her heart, that's still the same Mariah Carey I see today, it hasn't ever changed. And honestly that's what has preserved her charm, kept her relevant and intriguing 35 years later - she still has her light and gift in tact. Mariah if I'm not mistaken is the only artist who debuted in 1990 still on the charts today. What won't Whitney Houston fans give just to have one more era and album (shot vocals and all), tour from her. Something that will never happen, ever again. You silly fans here complain about the dumbest stuff, all the time. I thought Andrew was the poison here, but even as he's long gone, some new [censored] here have risen up to take his place. You should be quite ashamed of yourselves. (Monday 28 July 2025; 00:19)

The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,125) by TJ from Norway "Maybe when I'm an old lady and my own boobs sag like tube socks down to the floor, I'll appreciate looking at other people's perky ones on the TV more." Haha. I just love the expression. And agree with the rest of the message. Well written. (Monday 28 July 2025; 09:58) this is a reply to message 110,115

The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,115) by Dove from United States For sure we all change and for sure there will never be another artist like Mariah Carey ever again. It's just jarring sometimes because she seems like a completely different person. It's as if Taylor Swift suddenly turned into Madonna. We're all here still supporting, buying the albums, and streaming the songs. We're still fans but this is a message board where fans share their thoughts, ideas, grief, joy, whatever. I don't feel like anyone is being disrespectful and Mariah is going to keep doing whatever she damn well pleases because she can. She's the artist. And we're all going to come back here and talk about it and reminisce about the old times. I remember when MOAIA came out I didn't automatically love it and now it's one of my favorites. Maybe in 10 years Sugar Sweet will be my favorite MC song. Just because I'm a little prudish and uncomfortable with boobs out right now doesn't mean I'll always feel that way. Maybe when I'm an old lady and my own boobs sag like tube socks down to the floor, I'll appreciate looking at other people's perky ones on the TV more.. I'm half kidding but half not. (Monday 28 July 2025; 02:09)

The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,124) by TJ from Norway I don't think anyone said that they hasn't changed over the years, but it's about how much can a person change, and in my opinion the wrong way? As some of the other goats here said: Mariah 1990-1996 or something will always be the real Mariah to me. (Monday 28 July 2025; 09:49) this is a reply to message 110,101

The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,101) by Zachariah from Croatia Hm, let's put it down like this; go back 30 years (this is for lambs who are following Mariah from day one) and try to remember yourself back then. Done? Ok. Now see yourself today. Somehow I doubt that you all are the same person. Because I am not. I was gullible, shy, very introverted, afraid to say something and just followed others. Today, I am unrecognizable. She is still a nice person and our Mariah - who gets her, gets her. Who doesn't, doesn't. (Sunday 27 July 2025; 00:19)

The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,123) by Stacey from USA I should feel ashamed, but I don't. I think us silly and dumb OG fans only want the best for MC. Two more dollars in my pocket. (Monday 28 July 2025; 07:45) this is a reply to message 110,113

The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,113) by Terna from Nigeria Someone needed to say it, thank you for this post. I too ain't the same person from when I started out being a fan in my teenage years, somehow they expect Mariah to remain the same. However, everything she is today, she's accomplished 35+ years in this music industry that we all know chews them up and spits them out (need I call names?) is because she's grounded in Christ first of all, and she follows her heart, that's still the same Mariah Carey I see today, it hasn't ever changed. And honestly that's what has preserved her charm, kept her relevant and intriguing 35 years later - she still has her light and gift in tact. Mariah if I'm not mistaken is the only artist who debuted in 1990 still on the charts today. What won't Whitney Houston fans give just to have one more era and album (shot vocals and all), tour from her. Something that will never happen, ever again. You silly fans here complain about the dumbest stuff, all the time. I thought Andrew was the poison here, but even as he's long gone, some new [censored] here have risen up to take his place. You should be quite ashamed of yourselves. (Monday 28 July 2025; 00:19)

The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,122) by Stacey from USA Seriously Jaime, you nailed it. Well put. (Monday 28 July 2025; 07:41) this is a reply to message 110,109

The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,109) by Jamie from UK I'm under no illusion over 30 years has past, even Mariah who refuses to acknowledge time (for some weird reason) will know that over 30 years has past. Let me put it this way, if Mariah was to hold her public image in some kind of way that resembles the early days I believe she would have more respect now and be more popular at this point. I'm not saying she should be skipping through fields in a plaid shirt and denim shorts (however cool that was) she's not a young girl anymore. But how I do feel she should be carrying herself is just like when she sang "With you I'm born again" in 2005. There she was a grown woman but with grace, she was articulate and professional. And way more stage presence that she has today. None of us are saying to go back 30 years, would be great if we could but what I and many others are saying is when she tries too much and cheapens herself it doesn't work. Mariah at this point in her career should be like that 2005 stage performance, balanced, elegant, professional, coherent and drawing the audience in. We all love Mariah and only want the best for her and know she's capable of so much more without the whole diva pretense. Ps. I never said she wasn't still a nice person. (Sunday 27 July 2025; 10:21)

They say she's the same but she isn't the same (110,121) by Dove from United States Did you guys ever watch Roseanne? Does anyone remember how they switched the actresses who played Becky? It confused DJ and landed him in therapy. I was talking with my childhood friend about how MC looks like completely different people (both beautiful) at the beginning of her career and now. (Sidenote: of course it's expected that she would look different, everyone does with time, but since she still looks so young I don't expect her to look so different. It feels like five years instead of thirty, you know?) She started saying "They say she's the same but she isn't the same" but we couldn't remember where it was from. So I finally remembered and looked up the episode. We laughed so hard. It would be funny if MC did a skit like this with John Goodman. It's been so long now that probably nobody would remember this episode anymore, though. This was a highly rated show, does anyone else remember the episode where DJ says this? Anyway, I'm going to add a link so maybe somebody else can get a good laugh too. (Monday 28 July 2025; 06:01)

2025 BET performance (110,120) by Dove from United States I was just rewatching the BET performance in the gold dress and her girls looked fine there. I think a push-up bra was the culprit on Jimmy Kimmel - it was pushing too hard. I wasn't as offended with them in the gold dress, though. (Monday 28 July 2025; 04:54)

Sugar Sweet lyrics: "Cause I will absolutely get the ring"? (110,119) by Baby from Dreamville...Where There's No Beginning & There is No End @Bobby A, funny you should mention that "It seems like she wants the ring to get married again". Mainly because the particular lyric that's given me pause is: "Cause I will absolutely get the ring" - in the pre-chorus. I've been under the impression that Mariah has been trolling us for a while. It's like she's hiding behind a persona that simultaneously is non-engaging yet in-our-face bold and it's confusing. It's puzzled me quite a bit and it's part of the reason I've been imploring for her to be authentic no matter what because Caution was being unapologetically her and that's why it's her best project this side of Butterfly - another album era that is and will always remain unmatched. I don't care about the lousy rollout, the work speaks fir itself. One day that album will get it's flowers. Now, back to the sugar Sweet lyrics. That line about how she will absolutely get the ring came out of nowhere as the rest of the pre-chorus is very generic lyrically, so if she just threw it in there it means that's not where she's actually at. It doesn't scream authentic because she's also been known to say she doesn't believe in the covenant of marriage. So, she's just wants the diamonds? I'm not sure what she's trying to say and I'm a lamb. A casual listener isn't going to question that lyric like oldheads like me. If it's just a throwaway lyric I don't understand the point. Hence why I think she's trolling because I just don't believe she would put it in there and for no reason. Her interview persona as of late is very non-committal and tropey. She gets asked the same old questions about Christmas, lightning, just superficial stuff in general and she gives the same kinda autopilot answers. Has Gamma bothered to do focus groups to understand what both the general public and die-hards consider about her? It would seem like they haven't. Mariah's been media trained and was by all accounts of various student up until now. Her public image has been rendered predictable. I don't know if her PR strategy is less-is-more but I'd rather she be on vocal rest than do the same diva-esque Q&As that were inundated with currently. It's fine for some of the time but when it's all the time? When we know how she's gonna answer before the questions even fully asked? Please stop. With love. (Monday 28 July 2025; 04:50) this is a reply to message 110,076

Mariah pairs leopard print slipdress with throwback hair (110,076) by Bobby A from United States MC is in love. I have to admit that the lyrics from Sugar Sweet suggest that they are about someone very special in her life. I guess when we when hear their duet, we will know extent of their relationship. I don't think MC has ever used "baby" so many times in her lyrics. It seems like she wants the ring to get married again. (Saturday 26 July 2025; 01:21)

Re: Andrew (75,682) (110,118) by Lambi from USA I remember reading Andrew's sentiments as a teenager (I didn't post at all, just lurked), and now that my brain is fully developed, I wanted to assess his character as an adult. I accidentally came across his sentiment (the post I'm replying to) about Martyn, a lamb who died in the bombing at Ariana's concert. A post prior said, "I promise to try to show as much love toward the rest of you as I can and let that be his legacy in my life. I wish each and every one of you, whether we agree or disagree, whether we love the same way or do not, a long and happy life." He was clearly a troubled man, but the loss of a lamb and someone he actually knew in real life seemed to have waken him up and hit him really hard. "I'm going to pray tonight. I haven't done that since I was a child. And I'm not sure what that means. But a prayer I will say. And if there is an afterlife, and they can see what we are doing, then let this be the change in the board that is needed." This sentiment showed a lack of a prayer life. Lack of a prayer life equates to a lack of God in your life. But it brings me a sense of peace to know that, in his moment of pain, something in him reached for prayer. I won't disagree that he was extremely toxic, but I too would like to say a prayer for Andrew. I hope he's healed and found God today. (Monday 28 July 2025; 04:37) this is a reply to message 75,685

Re: Andrew (75,682) (75,685) by Andrew from UK Martyn was a guy who I got on with. We weren't best buddies. I won't do him a disservice to make this about me. We just made contact and had a giggle and made commentary. He invited me to Manchester and I put it off. I regret it. It's not about me. His relating of why that song meant so much to him after I quizzed him about drinking along and crying to it was heartfelt and I won't do him the disservice of relating why here. It's not about me, it's about him. I'm sorry that he won't ever listen to Mariah again and take comfort in her music. I'm sorry that he was cut down in his prime, on the eve of an adventure that he sought out. I'm sorry that he no longer lives and that we will carry on. Devastated for him and him alone. I will go to the funeral, if it's an open one, which, given the numbers of people who admired him, it possibly will be. I am open if anyone wants to meet up for it but I'm happy to stand at the back and say goodbye. If not just for this board. I was jealous of him, in all honesty. When talking to him, about how positive and open to life he was. I genuinely was. YouTube him. See what an amazingly positive life he led. Death is the great leveller, isn't it? I'm going to pray tonight. I haven't done that since I was a child. And I'm not sure what that means. But a prayer I will say. And if there is an afterlife, and they can see what we are doing then let this be the change in the board that is needed. And let him read how much he was loved. And maybe that's how we should process this. We should talk to Mariah and tell her who the Martyns of the world are and how we want her to be great. He loved her. We all do. I'm not on social media. So I'm glad this board is here. It's brilliant. It's about Martyn. That's the way it should be. (Thursday 25 May 2017; 00:44)

The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,117) by Lambi from USA I like the analogy of Taylor to Madonna. Even though Mariah completely changed her image to something sexier in '97, it was still pretty mild (like she said) and somewhat natural. I agree completely. I was even fine with her image during the E=MC² era. She was actually hot, and homegirl knew it. Her beauty during her 30s was effortless. It started feeling desperate when she wore lingerie on a noontime show and that ensemble on top of the piano on BET while singing "You're Mine" (on the verge of divorce). Even Patti was like, "Maybe we'll keep some for the imagination." Truthfully, I think Nick completely perverted and changed her. She was never the same. She even did a prank call on his radio show, talking about how "porn is good" and that her husband was not so far off from the guys there. Clearly, they experimented with it. And that perverted spirit kind of lingered. She does have a teenage son now, though. I wonder if Rocky has ever expressed how embarrassing it is. (Monday 28 July 2025; 03:31) this is a reply to message 110,115

The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,115) by Dove from United States For sure we all change and for sure there will never be another artist like Mariah Carey ever again. It's just jarring sometimes because she seems like a completely different person. It's as if Taylor Swift suddenly turned into Madonna. We're all here still supporting, buying the albums, and streaming the songs. We're still fans but this is a message board where fans share their thoughts, ideas, grief, joy, whatever. I don't feel like anyone is being disrespectful and Mariah is going to keep doing whatever she damn well pleases because she can. She's the artist. And we're all going to come back here and talk about it and reminisce about the old times. I remember when MOAIA came out I didn't automatically love it and now it's one of my favorites. Maybe in 10 years Sugar Sweet will be my favorite MC song. Just because I'm a little prudish and uncomfortable with boobs out right now doesn't mean I'll always feel that way. Maybe when I'm an old lady and my own boobs sag like tube socks down to the floor, I'll appreciate looking at other people's perky ones on the TV more.. I'm half kidding but half not. (Monday 28 July 2025; 02:09)

New song (110,116) by Bobby A from United States Sugar Sweet is still in the Top 30 on the iTunes chart on Sunday. Is that good for a new song after its initial Friday release? We need a JD remix with new lyrics, a R&B sample, and a rap feature from Wiz Kid or Burna Boy like next week. I think a call and response remix from Jagged Edge would be a hot remix too illustrating a man's reaction to MC taking her time to look beautiful for her man. Also, I hope Sugar Sweet receives radio ads next week too. Hopefully, some high school cheerleading squads will use Sugar Sweet during their Friday night footbball game half-time shows in mid-August. (Monday 28 July 2025; 02:10) this is a reply to message 110,112

New song (110,112) by Dave from USA Oddly enough, I liked Type: Dangerous better. Sugar Sweet feels too young for her to sing at this point and she gives way too much time to her guests on the song. It doesn't feel like a Mariah Carey song. There doesn't seem to be much evolution in her sound. I'm not expecting another Butterfly album (which was her pinnacle in terms of artistry and I doubt she could ever do it again), but she doesn't seem to know how to take a risk and do something different anymore. I think this song will fade faster than TD did (I will be delighted if I am proven wrong and it actually takes off) She just doesn't have the voice anymore for those types of songs that made her great and now, she is just another singer especially when people outside of us as her fans, notice how much she lip syncs now. (Sunday 27 July 2025; 23:12)

The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,115) by Dove from United States For sure we all change and for sure there will never be another artist like Mariah Carey ever again. It's just jarring sometimes because she seems like a completely different person. It's as if Taylor Swift suddenly turned into Madonna. We're all here still supporting, buying the albums, and streaming the songs. We're still fans but this is a message board where fans share their thoughts, ideas, grief, joy, whatever. I don't feel like anyone is being disrespectful and Mariah is going to keep doing whatever she damn well pleases because she can. She's the artist. And we're all going to come back here and talk about it and reminisce about the old times. I remember when MOAIA came out I didn't automatically love it and now it's one of my favorites. Maybe in 10 years Sugar Sweet will be my favorite MC song. Just because I'm a little prudish and uncomfortable with boobs out right now doesn't mean I'll always feel that way. Maybe when I'm an old lady and my own boobs sag like tube socks down to the floor, I'll appreciate looking at other people's perky ones on the TV more.. I'm half kidding but half not. (Monday 28 July 2025; 02:09)

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